User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)
 
  • 7 Vote(s) - 4.71 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Official PokemonGTS.com Tiers Thread
Edited: May 31, 2010   /   Apr 20, 2010    2:43 PM
Offline
Hang
Trainer


0 0 0 0
5,214



Post: #1
Official PokemonGTS.com Tiers Thread
Finally, the tiers thread has been remade again! I felt the old one was getting cluttered and had lost its way a bit. I will explain what has occurred later, but I'll just run over some basic rules.

1) Please address the current topic of conversation before creating your own, there will likely be one in progress.

2) Do not post and suggest ideas without serious backing and research to your post.

3) If you do not feel you know enough about the metagame, it is advised you do not post here. However, everyone's opinion is valid.

4) For simplicity, we will not tier any NFE's not currently viable in the standard metagame. We will, however, use Smogon's tiers for the ones that are.

5) Most importantly, this is for serious discussion. Flaming the user above or spamming randomly will not be tolerated.

6) Transition between NU, UU and OU is entirely based on usage.

Ok, with that over, I will just slightly go over what has happened if you were unaware. I, along with oodles of others, felt the old tiers thread was outdated as well as slightly flawed. We felt the best option was to replace it with a newer version and use a slightly tweaked Smogon's as the model to get us started. So, without further ado:

Uber

Arceus
Darkrai
Deoxys
Deoxys-A
Deoxys-D
Deoxys-S
Dialga
Garchomp
Giratina
Giratina-o
Groudon
Ho-oh
Kyogre
Latias
Latios
Lugia
Manaphy
Mew
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Shaymin-s
Wobbuffet
Wynaut

OU - OverUsed

Aerodactyl
Azelf
Blissey
Breloom
Bronzong
Celebi
Dragonite
Dusknoir
Electivire
Empoleon
Flygon
Forretress
Gengar
Gliscor
Gyarados
Heatran
Heracross
Hippowdon
Infernape
Jirachi
Jolteon
Kingdra
Lucario
Machamp
Magnezone
Mamoswine
Metagross
Ninjask
Roserade
Rotom-C
Rotom-F
Rotom-H
Rotom-S
Rotom-W
Salamence
Scizor
Skarmory
Smeargle
Snorlax
Starmie
Suicune
Swampert
Tentacruel
Togekiss
Tyranitar
Umbreon
Vaporeon
Weavile
Zapdos

BL - Borderline

Abomasnow
Cresselia
Crobat
Gallade
Honchkrow
Porygon-z
Shaymin
Staraptor
Yanmega

UU - UnderUsed

Absol
Aggron
Alakazam
Altaria
Ambipom
Arcanine
Azumarill
Blastoise
Blaziken
Chansey
Claydol
Clefable
Cloyster
Donphan
Drapion
Dugtrio
Feraligatr
Froslass
Hariyama
Hitmonlee
Hitmontop
Houndoom
Kabutops
Lanturn
Leafeon
Ludicolo
Mesprit
Milotic
Miltank
Mismagius
Moltres
Nidoking
Omastar
Poliwrath
Raikou
Regirock
Registeel
Rhyperior
Rotom
Sceptile
Scyther
Slowbro
Slowking
Spiritomb
Steelix
Swellow
Tangrowth
Torterra
Toxicroak
Uxie
Venusaur
Weezing

NeverUsed

Ampharos
Arbok
Ariados
Armaldo
Articuno
Banette
Bastiodon
Beautifly
Beedrill
Bellossom
Bibarel
Butterfree
Cacturne
Camerupt
Carnivine
Castform
Charizard
Chatot
Cherrim
Chimecho
Clamperl
Corsola
Cradily
Crawdaunt
Delcatty
Delibird
Dewgong
Ditto
Dodrio
Drifblim
Dunsparce
Dustox
Electrode
Entei
Espeon
Exeggutor
Exploud
Farfetchd
Fearow
Flareon
Floatzel
Furret
Gardevoir
Gastrodon
Girafarig
Glaceon
Glalie
Golduck
Golem
Gorebyss
Granbull
Grumpig
Hitmonchan
Huntail
Hypno
Illumise
Jumpluff
Jynx
Kangaskhan
Kecleon
Kingler
Kricketune
Lapras
Ledian
Lickilicky
Linoone
Lopunny
Lumineon
Lunatone
Luvdisc
Luxray
Magcargo
Magmortar
Magneton
Manectric
Mantine
Marowak
Masquerain
Mawile
Medicham
Meganium
Mightyena
Minun
Mothim
Mr Mime
Muk
Nidoqueen
Ninetales
Noctowl
Octillery
Pachirisu
Parasect
Pelipper
Persian
Phione
Pidgeot
Pikachu
Pinsir
Plusle
Politoed
Porygon2
Primeape
Probopass
Purugly
Quagsire
Qwilfish
Raichu
Rampardos
Rapidash
Raticate
Regice
Regigigas
Relicanth
Sableye
Sandslash
Seaking
Seviper
Sharpedo
Shedinja
Shiftry
Shuckle
Skuntank
Slaking
Solrock
Spinda
Stantler
Sudowoodo
Sunflora
Swalot
Tauros
Torkoal
Trapinch
Tropius
Typhlosion
Unown
Ursaring
Venomoth
Vespiquen
Victreebel
Vigoroth
Vileplume
Volbeat
Wailord
Walrein
Whiscash
Wigglytuff
Wormadam
Wormadam-G
Wormadam-S
Xatu
Zangoose

Props to Fish-E for getting the lists, big help! :)

Now, moving on, may I suggest the first things we should look at. As you'll see, Latias is emboldened to establish that I pretty much wanted a discussion/vote/test on Latias to be our first movement. After that, I suggest we decide how we will use Smogon's usage stats to define our own usage based tiers.

Happy posting!

Smogon Leaderboard Peaks - DPPt OU: Peaked #2, DPPt UU: Peaked #8

Find all posts by this user

Edited: Apr 21, 2010   /   Apr 20, 2010    2:55 PM
Offline
Fish-E
Saga Trainer

1 0 0 0
13,637



Post: #2
RE: Official PokemonGTS.com Tiers Thread
Latias to uber. It has excellent stat distribution, movepool and typing allow it to;

Outrun the vast majority of the metagame,
Be bulky enough to rarely be 2KO'd by anything other than a super effective hit (special super effective hits might not necessarily 2KO either),
Strong enough to 2KO just about every pokemon (including pokemon that resist its STAB attacks). Its typing also helps it greatly giving it resistances to ground, electric, fighting, water and fire,
Set up on the vast majority of pokemon, with its vast support movepool.


Find all posts by this user

Edited: Apr 24, 2010   /   Apr 24, 2010    9:26 AM
Offline
Hope Estheim
Trainer


1 0 0 0
223



Post: #3
RE: Official PokemonGTS.com Tiers Thread
Just wondering, why are Rotom's forms listed seperately when they can't be taken in the Wi-fi club? Not in HG/SS anyways...

EDIT: Guessing it's for Shoddy. Nvm...

'There's one thing you never put in a trap if you're smart if you have any plans about seeing tomorrow there's one thing you never ever put in a trap. Me.'


Find all posts by this user

Apr 28, 2010    3:51 AM
Offline
Fish-E
Saga Trainer

1 0 0 0
13,637



Post: #4
RE: Official PokemonGTS.com Tiers Thread
(Apr 24, 2010 9:26 AM)Hope Estheim wrote:

Just wondering, why are Rotom's forms listed seperately when they can't be taken in the Wi-fi club? Not in HG/SS anyways...

EDIT: Guessing it's for Shoddy. Nvm...

Yep for shoddy.

After 8 days nobody else has posted about Latias, so it should be moved to Ubers :)


Find all posts by this user

May 05, 2010    7:25 AM
Offline
Fish-E
Saga Trainer

1 0 0 0
13,637



Post: #5
RE: Official PokemonGTS.com Tiers Thread
Ok, I've just been reminded by a user about our huge UU ban list.

If we are to follow smogon, then I suggest we move all of the NFEs to NU and bump them up if necessary (Wynaut should be uber though instantly. Chansey is also already UU)

If no body disagrees with this, then I'm going to ask Avia to change the ban list.


Find all posts by this user

May 05, 2010    8:47 AM
Offline
Magix
League Administrator


1 10 0 0
5,057



Post: #6
RE: Official PokemonGTS.com Tiers Thread
(May 05, 2010 7:25 AM)Fish-E wrote:

Ok, I've just been reminded by a user about our huge UU ban list.

If we are to follow smogon, then I suggest we move all of the NFEs to NU and bump them up if necessary (Wynaut should be uber though instantly. Chansey is also already UU)

If no body disagrees with this, then I'm going to ask Avia to change the ban list.

Fine with me. I also agree with Latias to Uber.

[Image: Iron%20Man.png]

From Pokemon Online wrote: (01:39:02) Vishnup: Zerokid. How do you make C4Ds? :0
(01:39:43) zerokid: press buttons and hope for the best @ vishnup


Find all posts by this user

May 07, 2010    11:32 AM
Offline
DraconicWrath
Wrath's Son


718 2 0 0
933



Post: #7
RE: Official PokemonGTS.com Tiers Thread
But latias has no usage in Uber class when there is Latios the big reason why Latias is still in the OU(My view). If anyone should be Uber it should be scizor. Scizor has way to high of the attack base and defense stat plus having bullet punch with techninian gives it a priorty stab now. Also Like i said about its defense it also gives it a chance for it to be bulky and with moves like swords dance and agility its a great baton passer as well. Lastly Scizor can stand but to a lot of the ubers already and keep its cool even if it isnt bulky. So in conclusion Latias should be OU and scizor should be placed in the Uber Tier instead.

[Image: tdeold.png]
Team Record: 1-0
Gym record: W36-L23 61%


Find all posts by this user

May 07, 2010    11:37 AM
Offline
Revenant
Let's start a riot? ;D


483 0 0 0
4,119



Post: #8
RE: Official PokemonGTS.com Tiers Thread
Ok, I disagree with Dragonking on Scizor, don't really have an opinion on Latias

SCIZOR: Yeah, It can Pwon with bullet Punch + Technician, but can it really stand up to the majority of Ubers? It can certainly easily beat Darkrai, and a few others, but the real Uber Ubers(such as Kyrogue) smash the silly out of Scizor.

[Image: mandaloressignaturenorm.gif]
Give up on yourself, and you give up on the world. - Joshua
Gamertag JamieSmurf




Find all posts by this user

May 07, 2010    12:30 PM
Offline
Fish-E
Saga Trainer

1 0 0 0
13,637



Post: #9
RE: Official PokemonGTS.com Tiers Thread
For the last time
IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW GOOD A POKEMON PERFORMS IN THE UBER TIER, WHAT MATTERS IS HOW WELL THEY WORK IN OU. IN ADDITION, USAGE DOES NOT MATTER FOR THE UBER TIER.

(May 07, 2010 11:32 AM)Dragonking wrote:

But latias has no usage in Uber class when there is Latios the big reason why Latias is still in the OU(My view). If anyone should be Uber it should be scizor. Scizor has way to high of the attack base and defense stat plus having bullet punch with techninian gives it a priorty stab now. Also Like i said about its defense it also gives it a chance for it to be bulky and with moves like swords dance and agility its a great baton passer as well. Lastly Scizor can stand but to a lot of the ubers already and keep its cool even if it isnt bulky. So in conclusion Latias should be OU and scizor should be placed in the Uber Tier instead.

Latias is better than Latios in Uber most of the time, which is why she is used more.

Anyway lol. Rotom-H, Heatran, Magnezone, Skarmory, Swampert, heck most physical walls beat Scizor. Scizor may seem bulky but he actually isn't, a neutral special attack will do more damage to Scizor than the same attack to Infernape! Scizor is in no way Uber. It's also incredibly predictable with almost all sets having the same coverage and counters.

Mandalore wrote: Ok, I disagree with Dragonking on Scizor, don't really have an opinion on Latias

SCIZOR: Yeah, It can Pwon with bullet Punch + Technician, but can it really stand up to the majority of Ubers? It can certainly easily beat Darkrai, and a few others, but the real Uber Ubers(such as Kyrogue) smash the silly out of Scizor.

See the top of my post.

Anyway Latias's only near 100% counter is Choice Scarf Tyranitar. Latias is able to set up against the majority of the metagame, has base 110 speed so she outspeeds most things, base 110 special attack with Dragon STAB as well as an excellent movepool. In addition, due to its bulk Latias cannot be 'worked around' like other pokemon because it survives every priority attack (except the incredibly rare stuff like Absol's Sucker Punch). Pokemon like Scizor, which, despite resisting Draco Meteor are not counters because Specs Draco Meteor can beat bulky CB Scizor.
(Scizor switches in on first draco meteor, takes 53.4% - 63% from the first DM and then 26.5% - 31.5% from the second, which at a minimum deals 79.9%)


Find all posts by this user

May 07, 2010    12:47 PM
Offline
~NJ~
hang's follower


0 0 0 0
2,566



Post: #10
RE: Official PokemonGTS.com Tiers Thread
CB Scizors generally spam u-turn and bullet punch which are walled by about 10 pokemon. Rotoms, Skarmory's, Gliscors can all take Scizors assaults and either damage it back or whirwind it out/set up on it. SD Scizor can be a problem for a lot of people but the attacks it uses just don't provide the punch. Bug bite doesn't do too well in the base power depatrment, and Superpower leaves it vulnerable and decreases its attacking power. It's good, hence why it's number one, but it has counters and checks and is no way broken.


Find all posts by this user

Edited: May 09, 2010   /   May 09, 2010    2:31 PM
Offline
sushiking09
time to do work!!!


310 0 0 0
583



Post: #11
RE: Official PokemonGTS.com Tiers Thread
i have a question so da ou, bl, uu, NU list cant be used in battle? or is it just da uber list that cant be used?


Find all posts by this user

May 09, 2010    6:44 PM
Offline
Magix
League Administrator


1 10 0 0
5,057



Post: #12
RE: Official PokemonGTS.com Tiers Thread
(May 09, 2010 2:31 PM)sushiking09 wrote:

i have a question so da ou, bl, uu, NU list cant be used in battle? or is it just da uber list that cant be used?

In standard battles, only the Uber tier cannot be used.

OU, BL, UU, and NU are used more for specialty rules, and/or sorting by usage. As far as team making for battling goes, all except the Uber Tier is allowed unless otherwise specified.

[Image: Iron%20Man.png]

From Pokemon Online wrote: (01:39:02) Vishnup: Zerokid. How do you make C4Ds? :0
(01:39:43) zerokid: press buttons and hope for the best @ vishnup


Find all posts by this user

May 11, 2010    7:32 PM
Offline
mattpla440
Trainer


163 0 0 0
94



Post: #13
RE: Official PokemonGTS.com Tiers Thread
There's been an update on smogon, adding Umbreon to OU, Miltank to UU, and Frosslass + Raikou to BL. I'm not sure if there were any other changes, but thats what I noticed.

Heart Gold FC: 0732-7069-6959

Find all posts by this user

May 12, 2010    12:40 AM
Offline
Fish-E
Saga Trainer

1 0 0 0
13,637



Post: #14
RE: Official PokemonGTS.com Tiers Thread
Slowking also went up to UU and 3 pokemon (can't remember which) went down to NU. Also we know, we just need Hang to update this Sad


Find all posts by this user

May 15, 2010    8:28 AM
Offline
Hang
Trainer


0 0 0 0
5,214



Post: #15
RE: Official PokemonGTS.com Tiers Thread
Sorry, I won't be updating this for a good period of time due to my exams. If Fish-E or someone wants to PM me a list of all the usage changes, then I'll get onto updating the list when I have the time.

Smogon Leaderboard Peaks - DPPt OU: Peaked #2, DPPt UU: Peaked #8

Find all posts by this user

May 15, 2010    8:57 AM
Offline
Fish-E
Saga Trainer

1 0 0 0
13,637



Post: #16
RE: Official PokemonGTS.com Tiers Thread
(May 15, 2010 8:28 AM)Hang wrote:

Sorry, I won't be updating this for a good period of time due to my exams. If Fish-E or someone wants to PM me a list of all the usage changes, then I'll get onto updating the list when I have the time.

K

Before you go, move Latias to ubers please :) It's been nearly a month with nobody having argued that it is OU.


Find all posts by this user

May 16, 2010    8:13 PM
Offline
Mermaster
Draconic Outcast


339 0 0 0
389



Post: #17
RE: Official PokemonGTS.com Tiers Thread
I disagree with Fish-E about Latias.

There is a dominant base of powerful bug-type attacks in the current metagame. And, as these are primarily physical, they can still strike her for a 2HKO. I am refering to CB Scizor and Heracross. I run a bulkier Latias set, not even a calm mind set, and she is still ultimately plagued by those bugs. Also, Scizor is a staple on the majority of teams now; even if it amazingly does not at least force Latias to switch, then it should be able to deal enough physical damage to allow her to be properly revenge-killed. This warrants Latias' continuous existence in the ou tier, where, along with choice-scarfed Tyranitar, there are numerous threats that she does not like to see.

Mawage. Mawage is what bwings us together...today.
Black Code: 3181 - 7995 - 1210

Find all posts by this user

Edited: May 17, 2010   /   May 17, 2010    12:32 AM
Offline
Fish-E
Saga Trainer

1 0 0 0
13,637



Post: #18
RE: Official PokemonGTS.com Tiers Thread
(May 16, 2010 8:13 PM)Mermaster wrote:

I disagree with Fish-E about Latias.

There is a dominant base of powerful bug-type attacks in the current metagame. And, as these are primarily physical, they can still strike her for a 2HKO. I am refering to CB Scizor and Heracross. I run a bulkier Latias set, not even a calm mind set, and she is still ultimately plagued by those bugs. Also, Scizor is a staple on the majority of teams now; even if it amazingly does not at least force Latias to switch, then it should be able to deal enough physical damage to allow her to be properly revenge-killed. This warrants Latias' continuous existence in the ou tier, where, along with choice-scarfed Tyranitar, there are numerous threats that she does not like to see.

Heracross is almost UU.

Scizor dies to Hidden Power Fire, is 2KO'd by specs surf, specs Draco Meteor (after SR most of the time) and specs thunderbolt. Most of the time they'll pursuit which means they lose. Also Scizor can't switch into any set with psycho shift + burn orb (on the rise), Reflect, etc etc.

Choice Scarf Tyranitar is a good counter, however all it's leading to is more sub Latias sets, (who switch to Dugtrio / Lucario on the pursuit, which means Tyranitar dies) and the rise of Coblur Berry Latias. If Colbur berry Latias doesn't switch then Tyranitar loses.

Choice Specs Latias's surf to Scarf T-Tar: 53.8% - 63.7%
Scarf T-Tar's pursuit (no switch) to Specs Latias: 49.7% - 58.3%

So Latias is likely to win.

It is absolutly ridiculous that people are defending a pokemon that:
  • Runs so many sets it's unpredictable
  • Is so bulky that it cannot be revenge killed (40.1% - 47.4% Adamant 252 Attack Lucario's extremespeed after Life Orb boost! is a 3KO!)
  • Is able to 2KO nearly every pokemon in the metagame
  • Outspeeds the majority of pokemon in the metagame


Find all posts by this user

May 17, 2010    1:03 AM
Offline
Jon-jonz
King of the Fairies


718 9 0 0
3,737



Post: #19
RE: Official PokemonGTS.com Tiers Thread
I agree completely with fish

Down with Latias!

[Image: signature_by_jon_jonz-d7lbb5x.png]





Find all posts by this user

May 17, 2010    11:34 PM
Offline
Pkmon-Trainer-X
IV Breeder Ev Trainer

483 0 0 0
963



Post: #20
RE: Official PokemonGTS.com Tiers Thread
Why is the GTS who has had Latias as Uber (since when?) even though smogon had her at OU just now moving her to OU when smogon is now considering moving her to Uber?

We were ahead of the curve when we kept Latias as Uber even though others did not, and now that smogon is justifying our decision.

Witty comment to be added later.

Find all posts by this user


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)
 



Connect

Affiliations

We currently have no affiliations.

Apply for Affiliation

 

Design

PokéSwitch / Dark
Design by Global Trade Station / Artwork by Darside