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**Hang** · 07-23-2008 01:50 PM

PokemonGTS Tiers Thread

Yes, I know there has already been one but it needs to be revised and cannot be edited easily due to the OP (Sulla) leaving. Dax permitted this also.

As a rule, all prevolved forms shall be put in the same tier as their final evolution, unless they need a hold item and to be traded to evolve. Eg: Scyther, Onix etc. Pikachu and Porygon2 are exceptions.

Since we shall be discussing placements of different pokemon and their respective metagame, we will need trainers who have played in Uber, OU and UU to contribute their opinion. If you feel you are out of your league here, please don't interupt what this thread is trying to accomplish by asking what the different tiers are.

Please adress the person's above you opinion before you post your own reasoning for why a pokemon should change tier.

If at any time in the future, someone feels that a pokemon should be bumped up or down a tier then they are required to create a post stating their reasons to back their opinion. It shall then be discussed in the thread until a conclusion is made and then the list shall be updated.

On a side note, before we let the discussion begin. I want to make it apparent to people that usage only matters if we are moving a poke from NU - UU - OU. Power comes into play when we ban pokemon from certain Tiers. Like BL bans pokemon from UU and Uber bans pokemon from OU. Pokemon only move from UU - BL or OU - Uber if they are too broken and break the metagame, otherwise they should not be banned from that Tier.

Now onto the list:

Uber:

Arceus
Darkrai
Deoxys
Deoxys-A
Deoxys-D
Deoxys-S
Dialga
Garchomp
Giratina
Giratina-O (Origin)
Groudon
Ho-oh
Kyogre
Latias
Latios
Lugia
Manaphy
Mew
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Wobbuffet

OU:

Aerodactyal
Azelf
Blissey
Breloom
Bronzong
Celebi
Dusknoir
Electivire
Empoleon
Flygon
Forretress
Gengar
Gliscor
Gyarados
Heatran
Hippowdon
Infernape
Jirachi
Jolteon
Kingdra
Lucario
Machamp
Mamoswine
Magnezone
Metagross
Rotom-H
Salamence
Scizor
Skarmory
Snorlax
Starmie
Suicune
Swampert
Tentacruel
Togekiss
Tyranitar
Vaporeon
Weavile
Zapdos

BL:

Abomasnow
Alakazam
Ambipom
Arcanine
Articuno
Azumarill
Blaziken
Charizard
Crobat
Donphan
Dragonite
Dugtrio
Entei
Espeon
Exeggutor
Feraligatr
Floatzel
Gallade
Gardevoir
Hariyama
Honchkrow
Houndoom
Kabutops
Lickilicky
Ludicolo
Magmortar
Marowak
Medicham
Mesprit
Milotic
Miltank
Mismagius
Moltres
Ninjask
Pinsir
Porygon2
Porygon-Z
Raikou
Rampardos
Regice
Regigigas
Regirock
Registeel
Rhyperior
Roserade
Rotom-Cut
Rotom-Frost
Rotom-Spin
Rotom-Wash
Sceptile
Shaymin
Shaymin-S
Shedinja
Slaking
Slowbro
Slowking
Smeargle
Spiritomb
Staraptor
Tangrowth
Tauros
Torterra
Typhlosion
Umbreon
Ursaring
Uxie
Venusaur
Walrein
Yanmega
Zangoose

UU:

Absol
Aggron
Altaria
Ampharos
Arbok
Ariados
Armaldo
Banette
Bastiodon
Beautifly
Beedrill
Bellossom
Bibarel
Blastoise
Butterfree
Cacturne
Camerupt
Carnivine
Castform
Chatot
Cherrim
Chimecho
Clamperl
Claydol
Clefable
Cloyster
Corsola
Cradily
Crawdaunt
Delcatty
Delibird
Dewgong
Ditto
Dodrio
Drapion
Drifblim
Dunsparce
Dustox
Electrode
Exploud
Farfetch'd
Fearow
Flareon
Froslass
Furret
Gastrodon
Girafarig
Glaceon
Glalie
Golduck
Golem
Gorebyss
Granbull
Grumpig
Hitmonchan
Hitmonlee
Hitmontop
Huntail
Hypno
Illumise
Jumpluff
Jynx
Kangaskhan
Kecleon
Kingler
Kricketune
Lanturn
Lapras
Leafeon
Ledian
Linoone
Lopunny
Lumineon
Lunatone
Luvdisc
Luxray
Magcargo
Manectric
Mantine
Masquerain
Mawile
Meganium
Mightyena
Minun
Mothim
Mr. Mime
Muk
Nidoking
Nidoqueen
Ninetales
Noctowl
Octillery
Omastar
Pachirisu
Parasect
Pelipper
Persian
Phione
Pidgeot
Pikachu
Plusle
Politoed
Poliwrath
Primeape
Probopass
Purugly
Quagsire
Qwilfish
Raichu
Rapidash
Raticate
Relicanth
Rotom-Normal
Sableye
Sandslash
Scyther
Seaking
Seviper
Sharpedo
Shiftry
Shuckle
Skuntank
Solrock
Spinda
Stantler
Steelix
Sudowodo
Sunflora
Swalot
Swellow
Torkoal
Toxicroak
Trapinch
Tropius
Unown
Venomoth
Vespiquen
Victreebel
Vigoroth
Vileplume
Volbeat
Wailord
Weezing
Whiscash
Wigglytuff
Wormadam
Wormadam-G
Wormadam-S
Xatu

Undecided:

Right, discuss away! Willz and I will ultimately decide which poke goes where but will look at ALL of the evidence. Wink

Ron Burgundy · 07-23-2008 01:55 PM

Spiritomb should be in BL since it stats aren't that great and Dusk is a better wall then it.

Mach · 07-23-2008 02:21 PM

What tier is Shaymin? I don't see it anywhere on the list.

Fish-E · 07-23-2008 02:26 PM

Dude put it on the left, its hard to read...

PorygonZ to OU. Set up a Nasty Plot and even with low speed its tremendous... if it has focus sash. Scarf it or BP it speed and its even more powerful...

Aerodactyal to OU. It has quite a diverse movepool and works well as a Choice Bander.

Linnone to BL. If Stealth Rock, Spikes or Toxic Spikes isn't up it can switch into something weak to it and use belly drum. Salac Berry activates at 50% (Gluttony) giving it a speed boost. Then it can sweep with STAB Extremespeed and Shadow Claw for Ghosts...

Dugtrio back to BL. It has good speed but even as a Choice Bander it isn't that good. Its one purpose to trap and kill Blissey usually doesn't work as it survives and uses Ice Beam.

Also an exception to

Hang Wrote:As a rule, all prevolved forms shall be put in the same tier as their final evolution, unless they need a hold item and to be traded to evolve. Eg: Scyther, Onix etc. Pikachu and Porygon2 are exceptions.

is Vigiroth... You may want to include him in the example.

Clam · 07-23-2008 02:32 PM

I think manaphy should be OU because it has 100 base stats like it's other OU base 100 friends.

Fish-E · 07-23-2008 02:33 PM

Yes but with Rain up it can tail glow, Rest, Tail Glow, Rest and then sweep.

Also Mew is an Uber Base 100 in everything....

Ron Burgundy · 07-23-2008 02:36 PM

Mr L Wrote:Also Mew is an Uber Base 100 in everything....

But it can learn every move which manaphy can't.

Fish-E · 07-23-2008 02:38 PM

Not every move fool Every TM...

This is just a suggestion but possibly Ho-Oh to OU. Stealth Rock does 50% of its health and base 90 speed means many Physical sweepers can outspeed it combined with 110 Base Defences Means Garchomp, Dragonite, Weavile, Aerodactyal can all easily KO it. Sacred fire may be a pwnsome attack with a 50% chance to burn but chances are Ho-Oh won't be fast enough to use it... Also Priority moves will KO it after that 50% loss from Stealth Rock...

Clam · 07-23-2008 02:44 PM

Mr L Wrote:Yes but with Rain up it can tail glow, Rest, Tail Glow, Rest and then sweep.

Also Mew is an Uber Base 100 in everything....

True, but it's only good use would be in rain dance teams. Besides, many faster and stronger sweepers can possibly KO it if rain dance isn't up.

Azuremaster · 07-23-2008 02:52 PM

In no way do i consider Wobb uber! it can be easily OHKOed. Yes it's health is great and so is it's abillity, but if you consider that then Bliss should be uber. Look at it this way, more people are wall and wounded by Bliss than Wobb. Anyone can predict it and OHKO or 2HKO it. silly, I KOed it with Yanmega! I out predicted it which is simple since it's moveset is limited. Unlike Bliss who can use a variety of sets. That tub of lard is the one that deserves uber. But my case is that Wobb be OU.

Clam · 07-23-2008 06:43 PM

I agree lightning. Wobb gets destroyed by dusknoir, houndoom, or something with trace that can status it.

Fish-E · 07-24-2008 04:52 AM

Wobbufet is definetly uber. How can you counter it if you can't switch.

E.g You just sent in Jolteon, you had previously used T-Bolt, it encores you and then uses Mirror Coat and theres nothing you can do. You can't switch, you can't use a different move or anything. Its easily taken down if you switch a houndoom in but by that time (unless you switched to houndoom when he switched to Wobbufet) you'd have to NP. So he encores and then switches to e.g. Lucario and gets a free set up turn.

Wob is definetly Uber.

**Hang** · 07-24-2008 07:31 AM

Wobby stays Uber for me, it can really break so many teams apart with Shadow Tag and the fact it is rarely OHKO'd.

Porygon-Z to OU for me, great Special Attack, decent speed. Good STAB move in Tri Attack and an all round good movepool.

Azuremaster · 07-24-2008 10:11 AM

No offene, but Wobb is BS. Even if you hit is with let's say jolteon like Mr.L said it would do major damage still. It has no real recovery move so you can just sacrafice one of your pokes and there you go. It's KOed.

I mean, there are times when that poke will becaome useless as the battle prolonges....So, just sacrafice and get the kill. It's not like it can sweep a whole team 6-0. Unless you are a complete noob and have no type coverage. Not mention that wobb will let you set up with encore and by the time it is over, you can sweep a whole team.

In other words Wobb is a kamakazi. Just pure suicide to use as it can give you the advantage or break you.

Fish-E · 07-24-2008 10:33 AM

And what do you do if it encores you when you try SD etc and switches to smeargle who then spores and sets up Belly Drum and you can't do a thing about it because of Wob. That alone is a reason for wob to be uber. Nothing is as good at starting a set up...

Clam · 07-24-2008 10:46 AM

status effects and leech seed also destroys wobbuffet which he can only encore. Toxic spikes also destroy it.

Mach · 07-24-2008 11:05 AM

But isn't what makes something Uber the inability for a pokemon in the OU metagame to counter it
without a sacrifice? I remember there was this huge discussion on Garchomp for the same reason.

Clam · 07-24-2008 11:12 AM

There is no need to sacrifice since anything with a status move that can damage wobbuffet beats it all the time. And most walls carry status moves.

Azuremaster · 07-24-2008 11:22 AM

First off, any poke that can learn encore and scew the heck out of your team. So encore is not a real valid reason.

You can always put wobb to sleep, toxic it, faze it, Spike it to death, and set up on him. There are countless ways to beat him. The only good stat is health and the rest is pretty much BS. Wobb has no real defenses and is now here near offensive and can't even wall in all honesty. Plus you can force Wobb to switch when he is at a disadvantage.

He is just pure crap unless you have a great team, good predictor, and know when to use counter, encore, mirror coat, and whatever else. Example: Absol comes out...they know that you would either try to set up or nightslash Wobb. They usually put their money on setting up, because many miss the fact of encore being exsistant. Though, if you were a good trainer you would night slash and it can be a OHKO...ESPECIALLY IF A CRIT COMES IN! And we all know Absol will crit 30% of the time, because of super luck.

If you take into account that they will encore before counter or mirror coat 90% of the time...Then you have a dead Wobb or a weakened one. That is why I propose OU since it can get hit so hard.

**Hang** · 07-24-2008 12:28 PM

carlos4222 Wrote:But isn't what makes something Uber the inability for a pokemon in the OU metagame to counter it
without a sacrifice? I remember there was this huge discussion on Garchomp for the same reason.

Exactly, that arguement is un-counterable. At almost every time when Wobb comes into the game, you have to sacrifice a poke to get rid of it. That alone makes it Uber, this is mostly the case with Garchomp but Garchomp doesn't always take something down with it, Wobby here does.

Seriously this Houndoom arguement is flawed, I mean come on, who actually uses it? I've never come up against one in standard play.

Poll: What should be the first thing done? This poll is closed.
Restructure BL	11	37.93%
Change OU system	10	34.48%
Create NU	8	27.59%
Total	29 votes	100%

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